Your Boundaries, My Problem?

“There are those whose primary ability is to spin wheels of manipulation. It is their second skin and without these spinning wheels, they simply do not know how to function. They are like toys on wheels of manipulation and control. If you remove one of the wheels, they’ll never be able to feel secure, be whole.”      — C. JoyBell C

I’ve been spending some time lately writing about boundaries, and in particular, encouraging my readers to consider the give and take of boundary setting.

It’s interesting to me that most of us will see the boundaries we set as being perfectly reasonable, appropriate and necessary, and yet often find the boundaries set by other people to be unacceptable, unreasonable and unnecessary.

We need to think about that, don’t we?

We also need to think about how we do manage ourselves in relation to the boundaries other people set.  We have to get past our own resistance and push-back to properly consider what is being asked or expected of us. This can be a HUGE task.

As human beings, we tend to be self-involved and self-protective. We’re conditioned to want what we want. We’re also conditioned to push for it. This process of exerting our wants and our will is so central to the way we move in relationships, it can be hard to see how it trips us up and gets in the way of having respectful relationships with others.

The conundrum is mutual, just as we are struggling to get what we want and need, so too is everyone else.  This is happening in the healthiest of relationships and is happening mostly unconsciously.  The effects of boundary collisions are very often disconnected from their causes. We very often don’t see how our behaviour, values and beliefs contribute to boundary collisions.  No wonder relationships can be so mysterious and complex!

In difficult relationships, all of this is greatly amplified.  When we are involved with people who are wanting to control our behaviour, what we think, what we say, or our relationship, boundaries can feel like power tripping at its finest. Consider the following:

“My mother will not respect my boundaries. When I say for instance, “I need you to respect the way I parent my kids, even if it is different than the way you parented us”, she then stops speaking to me. Down the track when we are speaking again, she will do the same things all over again, like we never had the conversation. If I raise the issue, she stops speaking and round and round we go. She is so disrespectful of the way I parent that I am honestly wondering if I can continue to have a relationship with her.”

“I have been separated from my husband for ten months. I have repeatedly asked him to talk to me about our relationship and work with me to make decisions about it. Each time I ask to have a conversation about it he goes silent, disappears, changes the subject or tells me that I am manipulating him or controlling him. I am the one being expertly controlled!”

“I am estranged from both my mother and father. I have an older sister who I do have a relationship with.  She still sees our parents and has told me that if I want to have a relationship with her I can never discuss our childhood or our parents and that if I do she will break off contact with me.Telling me I can’t talk about our family or my feelings is crazy. I don’t like feeling controlled.”

The above are examples of boundary collisions: Other people setting boundaries, which may feel reasonable and necessary to them, and yet may feel manipulative or absolutely unmanageable for us. In cases like this we may feel like we are puppets on a string, being made to dance to the tune someone else is humming.  In healthy relationships we negotiate boundary collisions in a timely fashion, find mutually workable compromises or solutions and we continue forward in our relationships.

In less healthy relationships we may feel held endlessly hostage to other people’s boundaries, trapped in a status quo that is uncomfortable or even dangerous to our well-being. We may find conversations and compromises do not happen and that what does happen is the use of distancing or withholding contact to force compliance.

Invariably, when there is no give or take in boundaries, we may then end up feeling that our only options become ultimatums or relationship endings. We begin to distance ourselves or close off from relationships to manage the unmanageable tension of competing interests and colliding boundaries.  Obviously these issues are highly relevant to the breakdown of relationships in general and are particularly relevant to family estrangement.

Have you ever felt manipulated or controlled by someone else’s boundaries? Was this feeling part of your estrangement? Have you accused someone else of setting impossible or unmanageable boundaries? Have your boundaries ever been questioned and considered manipulative or controlling?

This entry was posted in Boundaries, Communication, Family Estrangement Topics, Personal Responsibility, Reaction, Recovery, Self-Care, Tolerance and tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

13 Responses to Your Boundaries, My Problem?

  1. fdgal says:

    As I mentioned in a previous post, my sister chose to cut off ties with my family. She doesn’t speak to my mom, me or my brother’s family.

    This was a hard post to read because I’ve worked so hard to set boundaries for when she returns. There’s a part of me that’s scared of her due to a previous family argument (not physical, but afraid of her verbal comments).

    When I picture her returning, I’ve decided it must be with a therapist. But I’ve also decided how that conversation will go and what we can and cannot talk about.

    But when I read this post, I realize I can’t control what my sister talks about. If she wants to talk about family difficulties and how she feels about the past, I can’t stop her. That’s not a relationship or boundaries – that’s control.

    I can set boundaries about how the conversations happen – ie. in the presence of a therapist. But I can’t tell my sister what she can and cannot talk about when it comes to our family.

    I feel a little down after reading this. I don’t want to feel any pain. I don’t want to think about the bad things from growing up. I just want to stay in the present, and move forward. But just because that’s what I want, doesn’t mean it’s the right choice. And maybe my sister needs me to go back with her.

    Oh too much food for thought. I will have to mull this one over, and challenge myself.

    At the end of the day, I just love my sister. But I can’t manipulate or control her with my boundaries. Thanks for the post, Fiona. These are good but hard/painful challenges.

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    • Fiona says:

      Hi Fdgal,

      Thanks so much for your response. It’s so great to see that you are critically reflecting on your boundary setting and working to sort out where you may be crossing a line between setting a healthy boundary, and trying to control circumstances, emotions and your sister. You are in good company, as most of us who are managing estrangement issues must consistently evaluate our boundaries and how we are responding to other people’s boundaries. It gets easier with practice and support, and still we need to remain vigilant to ensure our relationships with others are respectful and that we respect ourselves too.

      You have mentioned something I find so very important – that we often set boundaries to prevent having to feel particular emotions or think particular thoughts. Boundaries are sometimes a way we try to protect ourselves from experiencing life and relationship. Yet, often it is not possible to truly ” move forward” until we have learned to be present with here and now, and here and now can sometimes feel like a pretty messy place to hang out.

      Best wishes on continuing to sift through these issues with your relationship with your sister, and with yourself. Turning that critical lens of reflection on ourselves is a very brave thing to do.

      Take care,
      Fiona

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  2. Torrie says:

    YES! Our DIL has manipulated our relationship since before she married our son. Because of real and perceived ways that SHE has been offended she repeatedly sets new boundaries and issues new mandates extending the four year estrangement between us and our son. We are the puppets and she is the puppet master.

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    • Fiona says:

      Hi Torrie,

      Thank you for your comments and welcome to E-stranged! I’m sorry to hear about your estrangement with your son and the difficulties you have experienced with your daughter-in-law. The good news about being in relationship with someone who uses boundaries to control, is that once we are aware it is happening we can make all sorts of choices about how we respond. We don’t have to be puppets and we don’t have to be passive. We may have to make different choices .

      Take care,
      Fiona

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  3. Michelle says:

    I have an aunt that is dearly loved by our family as she is a widow. She also has 2 kids and took care of her blind mother for many years. I lived out of state near her for a period of time. I helped drive her mother across town, baby-sit her kids, sign her kids up for activities. I even took her mother home from the hospital on multiple occasions, and have cleaned up after her “accidents”.

    When her mother died, I asked one of my cousins, a 16 year-old girl, basic conversation questions. How is school? Are you still going horsebackriding weekly? She responded to most questions with: I don’t want to ****ing talk about it. When I asked about her boyfriend, she talked about the one she really loved and the one she was using to make the other jealous. This was encouraged by another cousin. I was 26 at the time. Never had a boyfriend at that point. And blurted out, “Wow, the family must think I’m odd because I don’t do that.” She replied, “They just think you aren’t your own person and afraid of your sexuality”. OUCH. I asked her who said that. She said. I don’t have to talk about it. I did ask her more angrily, “Who the **** said that?” She wailed: “Mom, she said **** to me!” Good grief. I started to cry. My aunt informed me that, “I wasn’t ready to handle a man like my other female cousins.” I then said in anger: “How dare you accuse me being a prude when you are acting like a slut with 2 guys”. (Yes, it was in anger) I then apologized and left. I couldn’t understand how someone I bent over backwards to help would say such degrading things about me.

    I did call my aunt later and suggested we get together to discuss our differences. I also apologized again.

    The aunt called the rest of the family and told them that I was mentally ill and never apologized.

    I spent the next year being accused of mental illness and family members demanding I “find god”. When I explained to my family that I saw a therapist who gave me “coping techniques” to deal with a difficult family, they said “see one who will put you on drugs”. I would get calls from my father saying, “Please talk to your aunt. She wants to be your friend.” I explained that a friend wouldn’t teach her children to say sexually degrading things about me and Auntie can call me if she wants to be my friend. My grandmother sent me a nasty note to my hospital bed asking why I insisted on punishing my aunt. I explained again that I was never punished her, I have apologized to her and she can contact me to discuss our differences. I also suggested to Grandmother that my aunt can call me to ask how she can help me when I got out of the hospital. I did call Auntie. She refused to come help me and insisted I was punishing her.

    The aunt has never apologize. Huge boundary crossed for me. Aunt refuses to accept my apology because I insist we talk about our differences.

    I no longer feel love for my grandmother. I feel sorry for my aunt. I no longer talk to my parents. Family ripped apart.

    Each day that goes by, I realize that I’m not the “bad guy” as my aunt thinks it is easier to blame me than look at her kid for her problems. And the kid has done everything from getting arrested to posting sexually explicit pictures of herself online.

    I feel on some level that what happened to me was emotional abuse. I’ve accepted that they’ll never change. My new goal is to live my life without such drama.

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    • Fiona says:

      Hi Michelle,

      Thank you for being so generous with your story. It sounds like a very frustrating and painful situation and I can certainly understand why you would want to back away from the drama!

      What is so interesting to me about drama is how easy it is to get sucked into it. Why do we do that?! It feels horrible when people are saying things abut us that we don’t believe are true, or are hurtful. We can turn ourselves inside out and upside down trying to “prove” that they are wrong – and often we do just that. We contort ourselves into pretzel shapes in the hope someone, anyone, everyone will see they have it wrong.

      When people are behaving poorly, trying to show them the error of their ways or words, seldom works, and only escalates our own reactivity. Yes, walk away from drama. Leave the craziness with the crazys and get on with looking after you!

      Take care,
      FIona

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      • MaryMary says:

        Hi Michelle and Fiona,

        When I read Michelle’s story, I was taken back to when I really believed that logic or “truth” had something to do with hurtful emotional statements people make about and toward one another, that “if only” she or he knew then somehow I would be vindicated. Through a lot of really difficult but ongoing personal work, I’ve discovered it just ain’t so and, in the greater scheme of things, it really doesn’t matter who is right and who is not. Being right and/or as Schaef identifies it, “one up,” is about power. Power-over. Personal power, I’ve (finally) learned, is not the same as power-over, or the courage to tell an offending party to go to hell, or even to snap back with a 4th grade nah nah nah “well that’s just your opinion.” And besides, if I’m right and they’re not, then the divide continues, the power plays get fed, and pretty soon you get to do it all over again with the next disagreement and/or on somebody else’s whim. That’s not the life I choose.

        In my own estrangement situation (which only came about 8 months ago, took me totally by surprise, never EVER did I think this would happen–not in OUR family), I finally got to the space where I must — must must MUST — take personal responsibility for all of my thoughts. I think them. I can change them or hold onto them. (Emotions are a little trickier–they pop up and aren’t as willing to be selected/deselected, lol.) In changing my thoughts, however, I’ve been able to transform some emotions so that I’m not in a high state of hand-wringing anxiety all the time and I also don’t have to deny those emotions by intellectualizing myself into feeling better. I’ve been working on “no blame, no shame” aspects of who I am as well as who each of my family members is. In the no blame-no shame realm, I am able to acknowledge what I’d always preached but internally seldom practiced: Everyone does the best that she/he can, given the information, emotions, resources, and past experiences they have at the time. With the hurtful words and actions that led to my situation, I realize now that I have a choice to continue to judge them as harshly as they are judging me and keep the hurt and anxiety alive, or I can work to cultivate personal growth, delight in “aha!s” as I gain new perspectives, and just keep moving. If I’m going to make my own kind of music, then I’d better like the lyrics and know how to play the instruments.

        And it _ IS_ work. It also feels selfish — one of my family’s accusations about me — so it’s been doubly hard to concentrate on me alone. But you know what? That’s all any of us have: Ourselves. Nobody else thinks our thoughts, feels our feelings, or makes choices in how we respond/behave. A long time ago (like 30 years) when I first began my intentional personal growth journey, I heard a speaker say “It’s not selfish–it’s essential.” It helps, but I’m not quite there yet.

        The next hard part will happen this weekend when I attend a family function that includes a lot of other people. I’ve been in an 8-month intense therapeutic and reflective space (the minute it sunk in that they’d just up and cut me off, I started my own therapy regime), my husband is supportive in every way imaginable (and we have an exit plan), I can do all the prep work in the world, but I’m scared to death that somebody will throw me a curve ball and I’ll start to cry, dim my Light, silence my voice, and forget my truth. I do not want to approach it as though I’m going into enemy territory–The Valley of the Shadow of Death (my joke compensation) — but that’s how it feels.

        So to Michelle, I offer this (where, of course, I’m invited to take my own advice, lol): Get with your own program. Nobody owes you an apology and you don’t owe anyone else one either. Decide what is important to you — being right/vindicated, or practicing what it means to truly live your life on your own terms without the need to harm or lash back at those who have a need to point fingers and accuse.There’s also no need to feel sorry for anyone (that’s a power play where you fool yourself internally). Emotional abuse? Maybe. (Tried that one, too, in my situation). But so what. Refuse to be a victim in your own thinking. Everyone’s doing the only things they know how to do, and it sounds like you’ve found some good alternatives for doing things differently for yourself. Thank you for sharing your story, it helped me more than you can know, continued success to you.

        To Fiona, thanks for saying in far fewer words than I’ve used the messages and meaningful insights that are helping me and so many others. Wayne Dyer says, “There is no way to happiness; happiness is The Way.” Finding your site has now become a major refuge/reflection space on my journey as I walk this new-to-me estrangement road. Thank you for providing solid, not fluff.

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  4. Karen says:

    I’ve been searching for the right place on your site to write about this and I don’t know if this is the right spot or not, but I’m reeling. I’m feeling so flooded by emotions and memories that I don’t want and wish to have. Yesterday a person from my past came to my door. It was the last thing that I would have ever have thought. They searched me out on the internet. Never in a million years did I ever think that I would see or hear from this person again. I haven’t searched them out. It has triggered and flooded me with so many negative memories and I’m feeling so violated. I’m certain this was not their intention, but it is having this impact on me. And this during Mother’s Day when I’m already feeling so triggered emotionally.

    I feel so violated emotionally and it doesn’t help if anyone tells me that I shouldn’t. I didn’t show much reaction, because I didn’t recognize this person, except the name and I was more in shock. I wasn’t mean or out of control, because I’m usually never that way, but when I came inside I broke down in uncontrollable tears. This time my husband reacted much better trying to comfort me.

    It’s like a succession of massive triggers. I feel like I can never escape my past–other people’s past and lives. I can’t imagine trying to contact someone out-of-blue by showing up at their home. I just would never do that. I know that some people would think that takes courage and maybe it does, but what it creates for another person can be so impactful even if it is not their intent. I just feel so intensely violated and I’m having a hard time getting a grip.

    I know that I’ll get through this. I’m practicing self-care by writing about it here and just didn’t know where. It’s always other people’s boundaries. And then she expressed to me that she remembered me as being sensitive and FRAGILE. People always used that as a way to diminish me as if I’m thin-skinned or that there is something wrong with me.

    I will and want to write about this more, but I’m starting to hate the internet. I start to hate myself too for feeling so little and small. I’m not helpless, but somehow the memories of being so violated trigger this. I’m an adult and I can deal with this. Thanks for listening and allowing me to talk about it.

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    • Fiona says:

      Hi Karen,

      Wow – what a shock that must have been for you! I am not sure many people think past their own needs (ie. to connect and make it right) to imagine what that might feel like for the person on the other end. I can completely understand your feelings of ‘boundary violation’ and emotional overwhelm. You’re right, you are practicing good self-care to write it out, and get some positive connection to the flood of feeling you are left with. It’s ironic isn’t it, that feeling the feelings and staying present with the process, however uncomfortable, can be one of the most helpful things we can do. It takes lots of personal strength and guts to do that processing online – so I can also imagine how the internet as a source of conflict and vulnerability could also be triggering for you.

      I see you as a very courageous, insightful woman who consistently demonstrates resilience and resourcefulness. You’ve been knocked for a loop, and I think you will manage it, one step at a time, in your own way. Thanks for being brave and willing to share your experience of blindsided reconnection with us here.

      You’re in my thoughts,
      Warm regards,
      Fiona

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      • Karen says:

        Thank you Fiona,

        I’m certain that you are the only person besides my male friend who views me in such a good light. I think most people would be pushing me to reconcile or fake it for their sake even if it wasn’t/isn’t what I want to do or in my best interests. The whole incident had a type of unreal quality to it. At this point I’m not even sure what I want to do as I’m still coping with being massively triggered and flooded with painful memories that I really have no desire to relive or think about. This is just one more thing added to how overwhelmed I already feel having enough on my plate already and coping the best I can with other issues that have to take precedence.

        I didn’t recollect if you’ve covered this topic previously or not. I’m certain it would over-lap though with reconciliation and a host of others. I couldn’t sleep that night and suffered with nightmares. I had a desire to leave–actually to run away, which I know sounds very bizarre, but the weather made it difficult–late season snowfall. I not only felt violated emotionally, but also physically. Just showing up at my home made me feel like my private sanctuary had been completely disrupted and violated.

        I thought it was just another pesky solicitor and I almost didn’t even respond to answer. I felt irritated before I even opened the door. I was prepared to shoo them off. Never in a million years would I have ever had thought that it would be someone from my past. I really never even contemplated it.

        When I opened the door I stepped outside and closed it behind me. I have such a strong, almost immediate guarding instinct. I recognize how very quickly I sought to create a sense of distance for myself too–walking away from my home towards the street. I was just in shock and it’s just the way I cope with feeling overwhelmed and flooded. I did say out loud that I felt overwhelmed.

        I would have felt less violated if initial contact would have been made in a less intrusive way–like the mail (snail mail). It would have at least helped me to feel less cornered and give one time to consider things. It makes me angry and I am not a mean person because I want my feelings considered. My husband knew some extremely stupid males who just showed up–as if they’ve got the right to just IMPOSE whenever they feel like it. It was a real bone of contention for awhile that had to do with him not being able to say NO. At least two of these mindless twits had the audacity to try to invite themselves over. They should wait until someone extends them an invitation. I actually told him that I was going to get a door mat which said, “GO AWAY”. Thankfully he is no longer behaving that way.

        I am not without compassion for people. They just need to give me some time and I agree that they don’t think past their own needs. It’s rare to find that instead of people so focused and intent on alleviating how they feel and getting their needs met at my expense. I’m certain if people would consider just once how someone else feels besides their reactions that their lives might run a bit more smoothly and some people may even like them better.

        At least my husband this time reacted in a way that was comforting instead of making matters worse. Thank you for allowing me to talk about this….I’m still thinking it all through…..

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  5. Karen says:

    I was also contemplating the metaphor of the porcupine and you know when my boundaries are VIOLATED that is when I feel like one–when my quills stand at the ready. It’s then that I wish I could target certain people and shoot my quills off just like shrapnel–teaching them a valuable lesson. There’s only so much a person can take!

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  6. kate says:

    Hi Karen,
    Just wanted to let you know that I understand those feelings of violation, and having your private sanctuary invaded. To make matters worse, invaded by the painful past.
    I have been stalked by my estranged abusive mother over a number of years, so I really understand the feeling of violation.

    I’m sure that there are others here who also empathize with you.
    When we metaphorically close a door on a destructive relationship, and the other person kicks down that door, the pain comes flooding in again.
    From your posts, I believe that you are a strong and determined person, who is undertaking a courageous journey in healing and self-knowledge. I hope that sometime in the future, the emotions that have been triggered will ultimately provide helpful information for you on your journey.
    In the meantime,be kind to yourself.

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    • Karen says:

      Thank you Kate,

      I appreciate your comment, although I’m sorry that you know what it feels like too. My husband had a friend who I wrote and threatened with a restraining order if he tried to come around ever again. I’m sorry to hear this about your mother–I know how painful this must be. My mother calls and I don’t respond, if rarely and sometimes that tends to make me feel horrible inside–as if I’m a terrible person. I manage the situation by writing her letters, which she claims that she doesn’t get. Her mental health–behaviors and communication make it impossible to communicate. All I can do is manage the best that I can, but so frequently I’m left with feeling that my best is never good enough.

      Thank you–and I hope that you are kind to yourself too.

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